This week, there has been a great deal of chatter over conflicting opinions on the extent to which Donald Trump does, or does not, aim to seek revenge on the numerous individuals who, in his eyes, have perhaps helped to land him in the sorry legal state he’s currently in.

On Thursday, Kellyanne Conway told Fox News viewers that the concept of Trump going after revenge and vengeance for what led him to his hush money trial conviction is “the new narrative by all the lemmings in the mainstream media.” Implying that he does not, in fact, want those things. But in an interview with Dr. Phil McGraw that aired that same day, Trump said himself that, yeah, he actually really does.

“Revenge does take time. And sometimes revenge can be justified, Phil. I have to be honest. Sometimes it can,” Trump said, within the topic of his legal woes.

New York Times correspondent and CNN analyst Maggie Haberman took a look at this back and forth on Trump’s “revenge” issue, speaking to host Phil Mattingly on Friday’s edition of CNN’s The Lead. From Haberman’s perspective, Trump may be publicly holding back on his vengeance views, but his message is still very clear.

“There’s a difference between being upset about the outcome of a case and saying, therefore, I’m going to go after everybody,” Haberman said. “Trump might be tempering, somewhat, his language publicly, but he is very focused on this behind the scenes. He does want to see retribution. He is not in a happy place.”